The System Is Broken: Building a Circular Brand That Can Survive the Real World

Episode overview

What does it really take to build a sustainable brand that works in the real world - not just on paper?

In this episode of BRAND NAKED, Jack Ananchenko talks with Roel Schatorje, founder of MOYU - a company rethinking not only notebooks, but the entire paper and packaging system.

They unpack the hidden impact of the paper industry, why recycling isn’t the silver bullet we think it is, and how MOYU is building circular products made from waste stone that can be reused hundreds of times.

But this conversation goes far beyond sustainability slogans. You’ll hear the real operational challenges behind scaling a purpose-driven business: B2B vs B2C strategy, international expansion failures, manual processes vs automation, customer behaviour, and the harsh economics of reusable packaging.

If you care about business, climate solutions, or building products that actually last - this episode is for you.

In this episode:

• Why the paper industry may be more harmful than you think
• How reusable stone notebooks work (and why they last years)
• The paradox of sustainable products: great for the planet, hard for retention
• B2B growth vs brand-building through consumers
• Why international expansion is harder than expected
• The reality of circular packaging systems
• Founder productivity, hiring mistakes, and scaling decisions